Reconnected: A conversation with Steve Wilkes about addiction

One of my goals with this podcast is to introduce an audience I love to people I love.  I’d like you to meet Steve Wilkes.  Steve Wilkes is a husband, father, Christian, and drug and alcohol counselor.  Steve and I talked about addiction in its many forms through a biblical lens.

For those listening with children’s ears nearby, we never talk about anything in a graphic way, but the words ‘pornography’ and ‘suicide’ do show up a couple of times.

We talk about chemical dependency, behavioral addictions, and Steve’s own road to restoration with the Lord.  It turns out that recovery from addiction is more than just a body issue – it’s a soul issue, too.  I believe this issue is worthy of our time and attention because, as always, the Bible has answers.  Whether you are battling addiction yourself, struggling with the impact of a loved one’s addiction, or simply want to learn how to be better prepared to love your neighbor as yourself –Steve provides practical tools to combat the idol of addiction.

If you would like further information about recovery from drug addiction or substance abuse recovery, feel free to contact me at scott@biblegrad.com, and I will happily connect you with Steve.

"Remember, you are loved, so go, love better!"

New episodes drop on Tuesdays.

Transcript

I’m Scott Beyer and this is the Love Better podcast where we explore the truths and lies about love and more importantly how to turn love into a skill – something we can get better at and hone.

One of my goals with this podcast is to introduce an audience I love to people I love.  I’d like you to meet Steve Wilkes.  Steve Wilkes is a husband, father, Christian, and drug and alcohol counselor.  Steve came through town on a once-in-a-lifetime tour of some of the greatest rollercoasters in America, and while making his circuit of adrenaline, stayed with my family for a few days.  It gave me a chance to talk with him about a topic near and dear to his heart – helping people recover from addiction.  Steve and I talked about addiction in its many forms through a biblical lens.

For those listening with children’s ears nearby, we never talk about anything in a graphic way, but the words ‘pornography’ and ‘suicide’ do show up a couple of times.

We talk about chemical dependency, behavioral addictions, and Steve’s own road to restoration with the Lord.  It turns out that recovery from addiction is more than just a body issue – it’s a soul issue, too.  I believe this issue is worthy of our time and attention because, as always, the Bible has answers.  Whether you are battling addiction yourself, struggling with the impact of a loved one’s addiction, or simply want to learn how to be better prepared to love your neighbor as yourself –Steve provides practical tools to combat the idol of addiction.

Steve is a one-of-a-kind mix of extroversion and thoughtful reflection.  He’s a good man and I’m thankful he’s my friend.  I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did.

[00:00:00] Steve Wilkes: Hi, my name is Steve Wilkes. 

 I'm an alcohol and drug counselor.

 I have a license in Washington state to practice substance use disorder treatment and I've done addiction counseling for the last three going on more years in various aspects of treatment.

I've worked inpatient treatment, I've worked outpatient treatment. I've worked substance treatment, I've also worked behavioral addiction, which is a little bit, it's like a, it's the same thing but different. 

[00:00:35] Scott Beyer: So behavioral addiction, not addicted to some sort of drug or chemical dependency, but addicted to things like?

[00:00:43] Steve Wilkes: The one that I worked was technology addicts they actually. Internet Technology Addicts Anonymous would be the group that I facilitated for these young men and women. I had a couple of women. So is this pornography but more than pornography? It could be pornography if it's digital pornography.

It could be just simply social media. They can't stop scrolling. Gotcha. The Doomscroll, but to a very extreme version. Some of them are video games. They were struggling in college because they were spending all their time in their dorm playing video games. And they were dropped, they were missing class, they were dropped, basically to the point where they're, about to drop out because they weren't up to the proper status in, in, in their college, because they're 

[00:01:28] Scott Beyer: so fixated on 

[00:01:29] Steve Wilkes: the video games. All their time is spent on the game, or whatever The technology they're stuck in. Yes. So it's an interesting it's similar to other behavioral addictions like overeating or like a food obsession compulsion or gambling is a good one to think about.

Gambling addicts are similar to this. It's they don't want to be doing the thing all day, but they still do it. And that's where it becomes a problem. If you're, It's the same with substance users. If somebody struggles with alcohol or other drugs, it gets to a point, they're progressive illnesses, so it gets to a point where they don't even want to use the substance, but they still have to.

And that's a hard thing for a lot of people to understand who haven't gone through it, because it's like, what do you mean they have to? There's a thing we call craving and it's not craving like I need some chocolate. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a level of need of something a dependence on it that, if you get too far away from it or you have, you don't get it in time, you're going to be sick.

You're going to be physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually sick. You're going to feel awful. And the despair, the depression, The, the mental anguish, all of that is tied into it. And if you ever heard like an opiate addict say I gotta get a fix. So I don't, I'm not dope sick. That's similar to the concept that I'm talking about.

It's a craving to the point that their body and mind don't know what else to do. They've done it so many times that they've narrowed the pathway to relief in their mind and their body to doing that compulsive behavior or taking that drug. And that's the, that's one of the definitions of addiction.

It simply is you've just reduced all the other options. You don't have any options. You've removed all the other options. The only option I have is to keep going with the substance or the behavior. That's the only thing that I find relief from. And a lot of people don't understand that you're what I, it's what I call moving the goalposts because what goes.

What goes up must come down. What goes down must come up. So there's a euphoria effect with alcohol, drugs, and behaviors. Compulsive behaviors. Like watching porn. Or gambling. Or whatever it is. You get a, you get neurotransmissions that make you want to do it. And then your glutamate resends the message up into your brain.

It says, do that again. And I remember that was good, so we have to do it again. And you're narrowing that down to that's the only option you have. 

[00:04:03] Scott Beyer: And then you get into a cycle of addiction where this is your life. Yes. Everything revolves around 

[00:04:10] Steve Wilkes: this. Choice is gone at that point. When you get to that point, you don't have a choice.

And, there's a it's very important to understand that, that I'm talking about powerlessness over that substance or that behavior. A lot of people think that means that they're excused to keep doing it. I'm saying you have powerlessness over alcohol or drugs or compulsive behavior, but you don't have powerlessness over to do something about it.

That's where the choice is when you're deep in an addiction, is that it doesn't, I try to bolster hope. It doesn't have to be like that. Just because it was like that yesterday, the day before, for as long as you can remember, and it feels like that today, doesn't mean it's gonna, it has to be like that.

Change happens all the time. And I want to tell you that there's hope in every story I come across with somebody, even if they just made a little bit move towards where you want them to go, right? Some forward progress away from the drug, the alcohol, the behavior that's causing them this. 

[00:05:16] Scott Beyer: So the powerlessness is not, it's like you said, it's not an excuse.

It's not, it's just recognizing that you have gotten yourself into a cycle where as long as you stay in that cycle, 

[00:05:30] Steve Wilkes: Nothing's going to change. 

[00:05:31] Scott Beyer: Nothing changes if nothing changes. So you have to take a step of some sort in a different direction to get a different outcome. Correct. So you do this professionally.

But, behind the layer of the certifications and everything, you are a Christian. Yes. And have been a Christian for how long? 

[00:05:52] Steve Wilkes: I was baptized when I was 15 and 3 months. 

And my father baptized me. And and I think back on it now, because my father was baptized younger. He was baptized when he was 12.

And me and him discussed it later in life when I returned. to my discipleship of Christ because I left it for a long time to do drugs and alcohol. That's part of my story. It's the reason why I do this for work is because I personally have gone through what all these people are suffering from this addiction stuff I'm talking about.

I know what they're going through because I went through it myself and I've been clean 10 years now and it's a big part of me not only Returning to my walk in Him, in Christ after leaving it, turning my back on, on God and Christ for many years, 25 maybe years, I turned my back and stopped doing it.

And now it's a big, I couldn't have returned without getting sober first. I truly believe when you're stuck in an addiction that you've cut off The spirit, the sunlight, the connection to any kind of connection to spiritual things. By taking the drugs, the alcohol, or the compulsive behaviors got to a point where you cannot even, you can't really even think in spiritual ways, in spiritual matters.

And you only get to return to that once you get clear of the fog and all the stuff that's surrounding the addiction. And so I talk about that where you have power and do something different. It comes down to, for me, it came down to the point where I had to humble myself and ask for help.

And I truly believe that's a kind of a moment of surrender back to God saying, I can't do it. I need you. It, that, that's similar to when we first come to Christ. You have to admit I'm doomed by myself. In my own self, I got nothing, right? I am nothing. I got no shot. But if I humble myself and submit to the authority of God and Jesus, and I start doing his will instead of my will, now I got an opportunity.

I got a chance. Not chance, like luck, it's opportunity. I have an opportunity. 

[00:08:14] Scott Beyer: There's a window. That's right. It's open. It's the first Corinthians. There's a way of escape. That's right. It's interesting, I hadn't really thought of it that way until you just said that right now, that the steps to become a Christian are steps of humility and connection to God.

Surrender and surrendering to him to say, I need you. I can't, I have gotten myself into a situation that I cannot get out of on my own. . That is the very nature of sin. The wages of sin is death. . And so I can't, if I pay that myself I can't. I can't. I can't pay it myself.

It's a cost too big. That's right. So I need help. And what you're saying is 25 years later. When you came back to the Lord, you had to do the same thing because it was it was saying, I got to get out of this addiction and I can't do that on my own. 

[00:09:10] Steve Wilkes: I truly, this is one of the main things I speak about in with patients, clients who are trying to get sober is that that, that is, that's it.

That's the that's the point. That's the moment. Surrender where I can either keep going on and nothing changes if nothing changes, right? So I can keep going on and there's a lot of good literature about addiction in a book called Alcoholics Anonymous.

And there's a passage in there that says I could continue miserableness of my existence until the bitter end. That's like till death. I'm going to drink myself to death. Or, I can accept spiritual help. Which is, it's right there. That's the two choices, and I think that's the choices of humanity.

I can either keep on going in my miserableness of sin, Or, I can accept the gracious gifts of God. That He gave us through His Son. That's really what it is. And I have to surrender to that. Authority. He's the son of the king. He's now he's the new king, right? Because he's the heir. So he gets all the power.

He holds the scepter. He's the one, right? And he loves me so much that he I will give you this gift, but you gotta come back to me. You gotta, and isn't that the, that's what the, all the prophets returned to me. That's the call from God from the very beginning. It's always you walked away.

In your sin, you thought you were doing what was right in your own eyes, and where'd you get you? Where'd you get you? It got me drunk on, high on drugs and miserable. Knowing that if I keep going it's going to kill me, but I'm feeling that if I don't use it's going to kill me. That point where you can't live with it, you can't live without it.

[00:10:59] Scott Beyer: I remember you saying one time that You're convinced that's why we call, another term for alcohol, for liquor, is spirits. Yes. It's because it's a substitute for a spiritual existence. That's right. It becomes the replacement. 

[00:11:15] Steve Wilkes: That's right. And every addict and alcoholic I've ever talked to, they all talk about there's something missing.

There's a hole in their heart. And it's always a God sized hole in their heart. That's what's missing. They don't have any connection with God. They don't have any spiritual life. And it's really the remedy to addiction is people think, oh, it's a bio, biological, psychological, social problem. That's actually what they do in treatment is we talk bio-psychosocial problem, but I believe it's a bio-psychosocial, spiritual, and the actual remedy to it is the spiritual.

Because once you get start getting right spiritually, the biology, the psychology, and the emotional. Stuff starts happening. It just automatically falls right into place. 

 I remember one time asking and you saying what you believe the opposite of addiction is.

[00:12:09] Steve Wilkes: Yeah. 

[00:12:10] Scott Beyer: The opposite of addiction is not sobriety. 

[00:12:12] Steve Wilkes: Most people think it's the opposite of addiction or alcoholism is sobriety or recovery. Or treatment. The opposite of addiction and alcoholism is actually connection. Connection to the good of life. It's connection to God. It's connection to yourself, the good part of yourself, right?

A lot of part of the journey of early recovery in the 12 steps is bringing stuff to the light that you don't want to bring to the light. And it's very similar to the, what we read in scripture if I keep those secrets secret, that keeps me sick.

And that's what, that's the thing you hear a lot in the room, as long as I keep the 

[00:12:47] Scott Beyer: darkness away from the light. It's in trouble. Trouble. But I have to come to the light. That's 

[00:12:52] Steve Wilkes: right. To face it, to handle it. To deal with it. And the phrase we say is, I'm only as sick as my secrets.

That's the truth. You only, you're gonna stay sick if you keep the secret. You have to bring to light all the stuff. So one of the first meetings when I was just getting sober, I went to a meeting and it was an open newcomers meeting. And a guy was in there, and I'm just meeting all these people, I don't know anybody.

But this guy had alcohol in his breath at this meeting. And it's a meeting for Alcoholics Anonymous, so people are trying to get sober, that's the whole point of it. That's the point of that meeting. The primary purpose is to get sober. To stay sober and help alcoholics achieve sobriety in that meeting.

That's the purpose of the meeting. And he had alcohol in his breath. And the topic that day was about the 4 step. Which the 4 step is basically bringing all that stuff I'm talking about to the light. You're writing about your character defects. Gotcha. You're listing all your character defects so that you can present them in a 5th step with another person.

And the 5th step is to admit to God, to yourself, and to another human being the exact nature of your wrongs. Which is a really powerful step and it's really the turning point. A lot of people struggle with AA on the fourth step because they don't want to bring that stuff to the light. So that was the topic that day.

And this particular gentleman who had the alcohol in his breath, he shared that he had something that he was unwilling to write down and unwilling to share with another person. So he was keeping it secret. There was one thing he was not going to ever share with anybody. That's what he said. 

[00:14:21] Scott Beyer: Gotcha. 

[00:14:22] Steve Wilkes: And a light bulb went on in my head saying, maybe that's why he still has alcohol in his breath.

I didn't make this connection for a very long time, but years later I ran into this guy again and he was sober. And I asked him, I said, did you ever share that one thing you mentioned back all those years ago? And he's yeah. Bing. That's why he's sober today. Cause he was finally able to bring it to the light.

Even though those years ago he wasn't able, he wasn't able to, he wasn't willing to, right? He wasn't willing to. And that taught me a principle that I have to be willing to do things different or nothing changes. If I don't do something different now, I'm going to be stuck blotting out the miserableness of my existence until the bitter end.

And I had that thought that I'm going to drink myself, I'm going to use drugs until I, I'm going to kill myself. I didn't want to die, but I, but again, I didn't want to, I didn't know how to go on without them at that point. And what I'm talking about is these steps, these 12 steps were a way for me to be able to finally do something different.

And the spiritual principle that I had to take on at the very beginning was honesty, open mindedness and willingness. And that's what we call, that's how we do it with honesty, open mindedness and willingness. Those are three spiritual principles that need to be practiced. When you're ready to make that change.

When you finally admit that I have a problem and I can't solve it on my own. I have a problem with whatever, alcohol, drugs gambling, whatever it is. And I can't seem to get away from it. I've tried all these different ways and nothing works. And I have to use even when I don't want to.

And then you go into a room of AA and they say, Listen, we all are in the same boat. We're trying to deal with the same thing. And. And I'm telling you right now, there's hope that you can get to the point where you don't have to use even when you want to.

Which blew my mind because I was, like I said, I'm at a point where I can't get away from it when I want to. So they're talking about me not using when I want to use. And I didn't understand that. I was like, what? But it was eye opening because it basically said, it doesn't have, it's hope. What another man has done, I can do.

What happened to someone else can happen to me. I don't have to be stuck in this life that I don't, I'm no longer getting anything out of. Because that's the truth. When you get down to any behavior, substance use, anything, the reason that people return to it is because they like the way it felt.

You do it again and again because you 

[00:16:44] Scott Beyer: like the way it felt. That's the nature of sin, right? All sin, if we say sin isn't fun or it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel good. We're lying. That's right. There is definitely, there's a temptation to it because it's tempting. 

[00:17:00] Steve Wilkes: And I honestly, this is how I talk about it with young people, drugs are fun.

Alcohol is fun. I'm not going to lie to a kid and tell them that they're not, it is. That's the problem. That's the problem. Because it will suck you in and not let you go. And then you're a slave to it. And I really enjoy when I read Paul talking about how he's a slave to God. Because that's the opposite.

That's the better Who do you wanna be? What team you wanna be on? The winning team or the losing team? If you're a slave to God, you're on the winning team. Because we already know how it all turns out in the 

[00:17:38] Scott Beyer: end. 

[00:17:39] Steve Wilkes: It's 

[00:17:39] Scott Beyer: interesting when Paul talks about being a slave to God, one of the things he says, is the phrase I speak in human terms.

. And the reason I think he says that my view on that text is because being a slave to God doesn't feel like being a slave. It's not. Because we know it, because we're also described as heirs apparent. Being a slave to God, that's a human term. In reality, it's the most freeing thing ever.

Exactly. But being a slave 

[00:18:08] Steve Wilkes: to alcohol, drugs, to technology, anything, 

[00:18:13] Scott Beyer: yeah. That is slavery. 

[00:18:15] Steve Wilkes: Yes. And it feels like it, right? It's oppressive, 

[00:18:17] Scott Beyer: If anybody is to 

[00:18:18] Steve Wilkes: God is never oppressive, it's always freeing. And it's, that's, it's the feeling that I, that we want, that it really is when you get down to it.

The way that I felt at the end of my drinking and drugging was miserable. And I only, I, in recovery, in sobriety, I. With the connections, because that's what we talked about, the answer is connections. Because that's what you're really doing with all those behaviors, and it's all sin.

You're disconnecting from God. You're disconnecting from the good of life. You're disconnecting from the light. And going deeper in the darkness. 

[00:18:50] Scott Beyer: If you think about the two greatest commandments, right? Love the Lord your God, which has been my theme this year. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.

And the second is like it, love your neighbor as yourself. So that also involves your heart and soul and mind and strength. Both of those are related to connection. Connection to God first, and then your fellow man second. And what you're saying is, When I choose, whether it be alcohol or drugs or compulsive behavior, I'm disconnecting.

I'm disconnecting from God, and I'm disconnecting from my fellow man. And so now I'm a slave. You're 

[00:19:26] Steve Wilkes: disconnecting from yourself. Remember the second part of that second commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. Do you think you can love yourself if you're a slave? You're not loving yourself.

You don't even understand what it is to love yourself when you're stuck in that. Because that's the thing about all of those things. As soon as you start doing them like I was talking about, you change the neural pathways in your brain. You're hijacking your brain the way that you think, the way that you emote, the way that you feel.

Everything about you is changed. And you can't, it instantly disconnects you. From the higher reasoning, the spiritual reasoning of us humans. God gave us reason. He gave us brains. Most of the time people get stuck in addiction because they want to change the way they feel or think in that moment.

It's the instant gratification thing. In this day and age, we've all kind of been trained that we can change the way we feel instantly. You have a problem. I got a pill for that. If you wanna feel different, we can change it right away. The truth of the matter is, why do you want to change the way you feel?

God gave you feelings for a reason. . Can you feel it all the way through? Can you even find the joy in the suffering and the trials? Because that's what he we're asked to do. That's what God asked us to do. Learn 

[00:20:40] Scott Beyer: from it. Feel it. Be in life. For clarification for anybody listening, that is not saying that there's never time for medication, or there's never time.

Oh, not at all. No, that's not what we're saying. What we're saying that to live in a world where we think feeling things, and especially hard things, is not good. It is good. You have to feel hard things, you have to go through hard things. 

[00:21:08] Steve Wilkes: Yeah, I think it's something, a message that we're losing in our day and age, because it's have a right not to feel any pain, is the thought.

And it, that doesn't make any sense to me now, because the pain was the teacher, was the motivator for the change. I wouldn't have even tried to get sober without the pain. Hadn't been in pain in suffering. 

[00:21:29] Scott Beyer: It reminds me of Solomon saying it's better to go to the house of Mourning that's right than the house of feasting, right?

Because the house of feasting is all Positive right in the house of mourning is nothing but pain. It's like I'm if you go to a funeral you're walking into pain but That's the one that's good for you. 

[00:21:50] Steve Wilkes: I heard a Swedish proverb, and I believe it's true.

Or actually, even more true than it actually is. I'll explain that in a minute. The proverb is that a burden shared is halved, and a joy shared is doubled. And I believe that a joy shared is exponentially growing, not just double, but doubled. It's not big enough. It's not big more than that. You're getting way more than that.

And I think that's what you're talking about. There's something that happens when you come alongside somebody and you help them with their burden by helping them share their burden. You're helped. Yeah. And you grow and you learn because you're sharing the pain the suffering the burden.

The greatest example of that is our Lord and Savior. That's the only thing he did when he was walking this 

[00:22:37] Scott Beyer: earth. One of his names was Man of Sorrows. That's right. So he pulled alongside people, he suffered, he felt pain. Physical, emotional, mental, anguish, all of those things. Spiritual anguish.

Big time. Every one of those. And yet we see him as more than a conqueror. Yeah. So all of this becomes a backdrop in your professional life. Yes. Because you understand it through a Christian 

[00:23:07] Steve Wilkes: lens. It's teaching me compassion in a way that I never understood before. That, that the preciousness of each soul, that each person has their own individual suffering, that if I can just help them a little bit with that suffering.

And get them moving in a new direction to accept the possibility of hope and change. Then I'm making progress and it's amazing to see someone, the spark on their eye return that all of a sudden they're connecting to life again. They don't want to, they don't want to kill themselves anymore.

They don't want to die. They want to live and they want to connect to, to, to God and they want to connect to other people and they want to connect to, and they want to help the next guy. It's a cool thing. There's something about giving away to keep what I have in sobriety.

I don't get to keep it unless I'm giving it away. It's amazing. And it, all these principles and everything about AA, the further I go and learn about it, the more I understand it's directly from the Bible. It's directly from God. All of the things that I can do in the steps are biblically principled.

They're straight from the Bible. Think about that first step that we admitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives have become unmanageable. Confession, what we were talking about before, humility, asking for help. You know how hard it is to ask for help in this day and age?

Nobody knows how to do it anymore. Like we've lost that skill that, Oh, I'll pick myself up on my bootstrap. I'll take care of it myself. Really? I tried many times. I couldn't. And it reminded me that I needed to be reli upon my creator. I need to be relying on my Lord, not on me because if I lean on my own understanding, where does that get me?

Nowhere. I have to trust in God and I have, and it restored that connection and I'm now I'm walking that the path again, I'm, I try to stay in him. All the time. And I know that the number one thing that would cut me off from God would be to take another drug or substance, alcohol, or to get stuck in my obsessive thought or behavior.

And that can go way further than we've even discussed here today. The negative thinking, the stinking thinking. Addictive thinking is a thing. And once you start recovering from the hopeless mind and body situation that you're in, you start realizing that it's the same thing. There's limitless potential to change it for the good, but I have to be speaking and thinking in blessings and spiritual terms than in cursings and the negative stuff.

That's always the choice. I can either choose cursings and blessing or blessings. Which one am I going to choose today? And the way I say it to people who are in early recovery is I can either choose to be happy, joyous, and free or Restless, irritable, and discontent.

Those are my choices. Every morning I wake up and I go if I make it a pact with God and myself today to not pick up a drink no matter what happens in my life I don't pick up a drug a drink or I Change the way I'm thinking if it starts going negative then I got a shot to be happy, joyous, and free today But if I don't, if I start letting the other thoughts, the restlessness, the irritability, the discontent of life, which those are emotional.

We have those feelings. But if I let that become the only path that I'm thinking again I'm on a road to relapse. I'm on a road to relapse instead of on the road to recovery. And I have to, every day I get a daily reprieve to be on the road to recovery by making that decision. The one choice I got. 10 years ago, plus when I got sober was I have a choice today not to pick up.

And as long as I make that choice every day I got a shot. I have got, I got a shot to reconnect to my Lord and savior, to God, to other people, to you, to, to my family, to my friends, to my community, to my church, to everything. But if I make the other decision to use, then all bets are off because I could never stop when it was just.

I couldn't stop at one. Addiction always has a element of more to it.

You're you're never satisfied. It's, I think it goes back to that whole thought about a rich people a rich person. Proverbs say that they're never satisfied with what they have. Why? If they have more than enough, why are they never satisfied with it? Because there's a more element to addiction.

[00:27:25] Scott Beyer: When you get down to the practical application of living in the world that we do, where addiction is everywhere. And it is really a pick your poison. It could be a chemical dependency. It could be a behavioral thing. And we live in a highly target rich environment for addiction.

And we also live in an era where I think society become less and less. happy, more discontent and irritable and grumbling and we wouldn't consider ourselves to be joyous and free, I think most of the time. So if you have somebody who's listening, who's like, my life is, it's out of control.

I'm not where I want to be with God. I'm not where I want to be in relationship to my friends, my family. The Lord's people. I'm not even right with myself. Like I hate myself. Yep. They are at a spot where the despair is just so vast. What would you tell them? I would tell them that there's hope. 

[00:28:30] Steve Wilkes: That there's hope. It doesn't have to be like that. You don't have to do the same thing you did yesterday, today. Change can happen even if you're at the lowest point in your life. I would say get on your knees and pray. I would say humble yourself and ask for help.

No one ever got any help from anybody in their life. Friends and family who love you, you don't get help from them until you tell them, I need help. They don't know. As a matter of fact, most the time when you're in a substance addiction, you're, they've already confronted you about it many times.

And said, hey, listen, we're concerned about your drinking, hey, we're concerned about your, your drug use or whatever. And you went, you do what we all do, which is deny it and push it away and resistant to it, right? Disconnect from that. I can't look at that. So you've disconnected so long that often times they've given up or they know that I can't do anything until he's ready.

He has to be in a place where he wants to change or nothing's going to change. So when you get to the point where you are in despair and you do want to change, humble yourself and ask for help. Ask, pray to God, ask God for help. Pray, talk to your loved ones, your closest people who know you the most, your spouse, your whoever it is, and say, it's there's a problem.

I can't stop. And say, I need help. There's something about that humbling, that surrender, that is, that's the point. That's the moment, that's the point where it changes because you don't get any help until you ask for help. That's a fact. Nobody knows to help you until you ask for help. 

[00:30:02] Scott Beyer: When we have addictive behaviors, we hide it, right? Yes. Secrets. Keep them secret. And so Is it fair to say that one of the elements that you're saying is that there's hope, but that hope exists through the pain of asking for help, through the pain of exposing You're yourself to vulnerability Because I think a lot of times that's what people are most afraid of is What if I tell people and then that will be the worst and your answer is it might be the worst for a minute But it will be worth it.

[00:30:40] Steve Wilkes: Yes, and this too shall pass is No, even if it feels like it's an impossibility do it anyway That's what I was talking about. Honesty, open mindedness, and willingness. Really get on with each other. If I don't do something different, what's going to happen? I'm going to keep going and being miserable. Do you want to keep going and going miserable?

If you don't want to keep going and being miserable, then you need to do something different. And the something different I'm saying is a really easy suggestion. Just admit that you have a problem and that you need help. 

And once you can do that, then you open up a window for God to start helping you. When you're cutting off all communication, when you're disconnected from God. It's the same throughout time. All He does is call, gently call, Come back. Return to me. And I will relent from the punishment of your sin. Just come back. Come back to God. And so that's the beginning of turning back to God. When you're stuck in alcohol and drugs. 

[00:31:36] Scott Beyer: You have, God's character throughout the Bible is made clear that he will He's faithful.

And yet he will also, he is faithful, but he will not infringe upon the boundary of your free will. 

[00:31:50] Steve Wilkes: That's right. So autonomy is the number one thing that I teach people in early recovery. That autonomy is king. It's the highest ethic. God gives us autonomy, the choice to do what we want, but you have to understand that with that autonomy, with that free will, he also gives us a spiritual principle of you reap what you sow.

[00:32:13] Scott Beyer: There's consequences to our autonomy. 

[00:32:15] Steve Wilkes: There's always consequences to no matter what you choose. Now, if you choose to do something different, Most of the time, I've never really had a consequence that was all good and I don't think I've ever had a consequence that was all bad. Most of the time it's a mixed bag where you get some good and some bad consequences.

The truth of the matter is you're talking about the reluctance to start changing with your addiction. That's a fear. You're basing your decision on the potential of a negative consequence. But it's usually, like most fears, it's usually a false evidence appearing real. It's

[00:32:47] Scott Beyer: Never as bad as what you think it will be. Exactly. Even though, yes, typically there are consequences to confessing your sin, to owning that you need help. There's consequences, and they're not all worthy and wonderful. 

[00:33:00] Steve Wilkes: It feels, it's uncomfortable.

We're not used to it. But I'll tell you that there's a ton of positive consequences, benefits. There's a lot of benefits to confessing that you're struggling with alcohol. Nothing changes if you keep hiding it and keeping it secret and denying that there's a problem. If you keep going at 

[00:33:21] Scott Beyer: it, nothing's going to change.

Like you said, often times your family, your friends, they know already, right? And if you will own it, A lot of times they're right. They're ready. Let's go. Yes. They're saying, what can I do to help? We've been waiting, with tears in their eyes. That's right. We've been waiting for this. 

[00:33:42] Steve Wilkes: Yes. They're praying for you.

And when you finally make that step, you are, once again, letting in the good into your life. You're reconnecting to the good because that's what we're talking about. 

If somebody's if my, all my relatives are out there praying for me because they know I have a problem.

But I'm like, nah, it's not really a problem. I'm fine. I'm still, I still have my job. I still got a car in the garage and I still pay my mortgage. It's not a problem. Why are they praying for me if it's not a problem? But you don't realize that's the thing that usually most of the time it's the opposite.

An alcoholic or a drug addict thinks that nobody knows that they're a drug addict or an alcoholic. The truth of the matter is everybody knows when you talk to them later, they're like, there's too many signs. Physical, emotional, mental and spiritual signs of somebody who's stuck in addiction that everybody knows and at some level they, there's something off.

They all sense that there's something off. They may not know all the specifics 'cause you're hiding it from 'em. But they know something's off and they're praying that something happens to change. The trajectory of your life, there's it's not going where you know, it doesn't look like it's there's a good outlook so they're you know, they're all praying for you and when I when I realized that's when I Made a decision to do something different and I did I got I prayed I that was the first thing I did was You know help me It's the simplest prayer.

God help me. I need help. And there's some, the humility, even in that simple prayer changes you. You start to change when you realize that you can't do it on your own, that you need God. There's, because this is the thing. When we talk about chemical addiction, the old term we changed, we stopped saying it, but we used to call it chemical dependency.

Dependency is a word dependent, right? You need, you have to have it. You're dependent on it, right? You're supposed to be dependent on your creator, on God. And if you are, then you won't be dependent on anything else. If you're truly dependent on God, you're back to filling the God shape. That's exactly it.

And there's a million ways to go about it. And there's a million ways that I've talked to, cause I try to talk, I try to meet people where they are and then help them to the next step. in the right direction. Try to move them. And I know that I have very little control over that.

It's actually God doing, I might plant a seed, I might water in a little bit, I might do something, but God's doing the increase. I know that. I know that now. So all I can do for anybody is to try to sympathize, be with them where they are and help them to want to improve to progress to a different way.

To the way, everybody's on their own journey. It happens different for each person. And I understand all that too. And so a lot of it is me being patient and allowing time and God to do what he's doing on his time, because that's usually what it is. If I can keep somebody interested in learning about addiction and how to treat it or how to deal with it, how to, my, my primary job at my last job was to help people attain Abstinence.

And then maintain abstinence. That was the two parts of it. I wanted to help them get away from drugs and alcohol. All mind altering substances. And then stay away. Because often times it's harder to stay away than just get away. We hear about these people that are revolving doors. They come in and they go out.

They get sober for a week or two or a month or two and then relapse and then they relapse and then they actually, there's terms called chronic relapses out there where they do that over and over again. They get sober for a while, they go back out, they get sober for a while, they go back out. And the idea is to keep helping people move in the right direction.

Because autonomy, I can't make them do anything 

[00:37:35] Scott Beyer: and 

[00:37:35] Steve Wilkes: they can't really make me do anything. They still have choice. And free will and what they do 

[00:37:42] Scott Beyer: even with addiction. What do you say to the person who knows somebody who's in addiction?

 Either outright knows or has some very clear signs. And they don't know what to do, right? The easy thing to do when you're not 100 percent sure is do nothing, right? It's Yes, don't do that. But that's what we do, right? 

[00:38:03] Steve Wilkes: What I would suggest is, first off, pray for them.

Definitely. Get everybody you know praying for them. Okay. Confront them. But honestly and gently. Think about restoring a brother who's in sin and doing it gently. Out of love. 

[00:38:20] Scott Beyer: What does that look like? If you were, imagine you are going to do that with me. To me it's how does that conver how does have those conversations with that?

I have to stay on 

[00:38:28] Steve Wilkes: my side of the street. 'cause you get down to autonomy again. Okay. So even the family, it's a family disease. It's affecting everybody in this person's life, family, friends, everybody. But if I stay in my lane, that, that is, I learn more about it myself. The more I learn about it, the more I'm able to talk to the him about it because I know more or them or her or whatever it's, it, I have to do my part for me, but I also in positioning myself to be as maximum benefit to them by doing that. Praying for them puts me in the right frame of mind.

And then, there there's books that you can read to learn up on to to study up on. On addiction, on the family aspects of the disease. There's books that you can read about codependency, which is often a problem. There's a term called enabling, right? And you've heard this term like, like they're only alcohol because I keep enabling.

No, because there's choice in everything they do and there's choice in what you do, but you can be, you can work on your codependency issues. And you can come with them at love and not enable them. If you learn how to not enable and to, and not to help them be codependent on them, you're making progress. So there's a sister organization to alcoholics and novices called Al Anon and it's for families to learn how to do the 12 steps for themselves. And not be put on tilt when their loved one is using or not. That you start to learn. So I, the best analogy for this is what I call the baseball analogy. People who are trying to get sober are at, up at bat. And if they pull off a single, that's physical sobriety, right? second base is, is, is, Second base is mental sobriety, third base is emotional sobriety, and home plate is spiritual sobriety. Now, someone in AA can hit a home run and get to spiritual sobriety, yes. But they first have to get a base hit and start getting that consistently, right?

They have to work on their average, like their batting average, right? But somebody Anon, they don't have to worry about getting on base. They're almost always getting to second, third, or home plate. But if they let the physical sobriety of their loved one block them, then they're not getting on base either, right?

They don't have to physically worry about their physical sobriety, but they certainly have to worry about their mental, emotional and spiritual sobriety. And that's what they're Anon is how to be, how to stay well, and how to stay well. How to have well being regardless of what your loved one is doing. If they're using or not, it doesn't affect you.

You still come with them with love and everything you can, but you're not enabling them. You're not keeping them. The first thing they teach in Al Anon is I didn't cause it. I can't cure it. Those types of things. Like I'm not responsible. It's teaching us the autonomy. I have responsibility and onus of myself.

I have a responsibility for myself. I have responsibility to you and to everybody in my life. I have responsibility to help and do my part in making their life better. I'm responsible for me. And that's a huge, there's 

[00:41:30] Scott Beyer: a huge, there's a huge difference between those two. Yeah. The good Samaritan is a case of responsibility too, right?

So the Samaritan. Walks along, and he doesn't do what the two previous guys do. He says, here's a human being, and I have a responsibility to him. But that responsibility is not for the rest of his life. It's not for everything. 

[00:41:52] Steve Wilkes: He's responsible for himself. I'm responsible to do my part to help him. Within the 

[00:41:58] Scott Beyer: boundaries of what I can.

[00:41:59] Steve Wilkes: Yes. And with love and compassion. All of those things. Because he wouldn't have left the money at the innkeeper and said, Yeah, 

[00:42:06] Scott Beyer: absolutely. 

[00:42:06] Steve Wilkes: Charged me the rest when I come back if he didn't have that level of true religion. Helping the needy and the widows. That's it. This is the deal. We're here to help each other.

It's connection. He's here to help, but I can't make him do anything. I can't make him. Even stay at the end after 

[00:42:27] Scott Beyer: I've I get the guy to the end. That's right. I cover the costs so that he could get well. Sure. But what happens if tomorrow he goes, I'm out of here. Yes. I can't do anything.

I can't do anything about it. That's right. So there's a limit to what you can do for other people. And that's right. You have to understand those limits in order to affect it. You have to let people 

[00:42:49] Steve Wilkes: fail. You have to let people try. You have to let people do. They're responsible for themselves, right?

They have to work on their relationship with God, just like you have to work on your relationship with God. They have to work on their relationship with other people, just like you have to work on your relationship with other people. If you're talking about loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself, that's what we're talking about.

And loving others as yourself is letting them be responsible for themselves. The boundary setting thing is a huge skill that we don't teach much, but we need to. We need to teach boundaries. One of the most beneficial thing that I've learned in sobriety is that I can say no when it's, I feel like this is not going to help me, them or anybody.

I can say no. I can put a boundary up, right? I can communicate boundaries. I can tell people I would really prefer not to do that. So I'm going to step away for this, and you guys can go on or whatever it is, whatever your boundary is. You have to set up boundaries with your loved ones. Or you let them tilt you.

And that is what we call unhealthy co dependence. It shouldn't be that way. We should have healthy dependence on each other, right? It's healthy dependence is which is better? When you hug yourself? Or when you hug someone else. I get a lot more benefits when I'm hugging somebody else than when I'm hugging myself.

That's healthy dependence. I know that I need them for that physical contact, for what I need them, but I'm not over relying. I won't die if I don't get the hug. I know that, but I know I'll get benefits from the hug. See, that's the reap what you sow thing again, right? So we're doing that with all our relationships.

If I'm building, if I'm building healthy relationships, healthy connections, With other human beings through love that's different than anything that I've experienced when I'm in addiction. It's the opposite addiction is the disconnection and you have fear and hate and Just struggles with all your relationships because there's an unhealthy element to it.

 If alcohol and drugs was tied up in every relationship. I have that relationships warped in some way it breaks everything. Yeah, it breaks everything and I have to work on unwarping it, you know I have to disassociate the alcohol and drug use with whatever's going on in my life.

I have to do everything I have to live life on life's term without The crutch of alcohol or drugs to get through it, which that's what it is When you're at the end you need it you have to have it You can't imagine going through life with her with it or without it. That's the jumping off point That's the point where you realize If it doesn't change, I'm going to die.

And, I hope people, this is what I hope, the people that are struggling with alcohol and drugs, that they start realizing that's where it's going. The road always leads there. The progression of the disease is almost always the same. It always gets worse, never better. It's a chronic thing.

That means that once you have it, it's not going away. I have it today. If you ask me today, I say, yes, I'm an alcoholic and a drug addict and I won't be till the day I die. The only difference is now I've done enough change. I've done enough abstinence to give myself the opportunity to choose not to pick up for today.

And every day I do that, all the good starts coming back in my life. Like self esteem. If I go one day without drinking, I'm already feeling and thinking about myself with more love than I did when I was using. And that's what we're talking about. And then I could start loving other people.

Because other people loved me when I was unlovable. That's what I'm saying. People were praying for me. I didn't even know how many people were praying for me when I was lost in my addiction. So 

[00:46:17] Scott Beyer: one of the things that you just said is something that I've heard many people who have been through addiction of all different types say, and I think for those who have not been in that world, sometimes it's it jars us, which is that you still are.

You. I am an alcoholic. You said I am an alcoholic, right? 

[00:46:40] Steve Wilkes: I 

[00:46:40] Scott Beyer: am. 

[00:46:40] Steve Wilkes: And I am a drug addict. I'm recovering, but I'm an alcoholic. Yes. 

[00:46:44] Scott Beyer: S addict, but you also said, Hey, I 10 years, I've been 10 years without substance. Yes. So explain that to me. ' 

[00:46:51] Steve Wilkes: so when I say I'm an alcoholic, I'm not saying I'm an active alcoholic. I'm not actively using alcohol. No, that is not what I'm saying. I'm saying that I'm an alcoholic. That I warped my relationships with God, with other people in my life.

I I warped relationships with myself to the point where I couldn't go a day without picking up a drink. I drink every day, even when I didn't want to. And what I mean by that is think about it. If you're an alcoholic, you still have to go to work. So do you want to go to work with your hands shaking because you have so much alcohol in your system, you're detoxing from it, you're withdrawing from it that you have the DTs.

No. So alcoholics will have a little bit of alcohol before they go to work. So their hands don't shake. They don't want to have that drink at that point. They want to go to work and be a Be a human being or feel like a human being for eight hours, right? But they can't go to work and their boss see them handshaking, or they'll get fired.

So they have to have a drink, even when they don't want to. That's the thing that people don't understand. Is that an alcoholic is, has progressed in this disease far enough where he can't get away from it without 

[00:48:02] Scott Beyer: outside help. So when you say, I am an alcoholic, but not an active one. What you, is it fair to say what you mean by that is, that you're never more than one drink away.

[00:48:14] Steve Wilkes: That's exactly right. One sip away. You, and you know that about yourself. And I've backed that up, I've backed that up to one thought away. If I go down the wrong way with my thinking, then I can be that much closer to a drink. Relapse is a very common thing in recovery from alcohol and drugs. It takes work to do what you're supposed to do. But there's no greater benefit than doing what you ought to do because you should do it.

'cause you ought to do it. There's a huge. It's a self, like I was talking about self esteem, it's a self esteem builder. When you do what you're supposed to do because you're supposed to do it, it feels right because it is. If you're doing it for the right reasons and you're doing it just because it's the right thing to do, it's gonna benefit you, right?

And the problem is we're, we shut off that part of our, we shut off the wise part of ourselves and say, but I want what I want when I want it. That's selfish. That's the whole problem. It's the opposite of loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself. Because you're not thinking about anybody else but yourself.

[00:49:22] Scott Beyer: And selfishness leads down a very dark 

[00:49:24] Steve Wilkes: path. It's a very dark path. It's always tied up to addiction in some form. I've never seen it, I've never seen an addicted person doesn't have some form of selfishness in their addiction. 

[00:49:35] Scott Beyer: So now ten years later 

[00:49:37] Steve Wilkes: Ten years later. 10 plus. Joyous, free.

Happy, joyous, and free. As long, I have a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition. That's a quote from Alcoholics Anonymous again. I have a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition. The only good relationship I can ever have with alcohol and drugs for the rest of my life is abstinence. That's the only relationship I can have with those things because it's absence. It's total absence.

If I put any amount in my body, all bets are off. I'm back on the merry go round. I'm going towards miserable, discontent, restlessness, all of the negative. 

[00:50:19] Scott Beyer: So 10 years plus later, 

[00:50:21] Steve Wilkes: happy, joyous and free. And that's the choice. I, today I think of it like a seesaw. I'm piling on reasons not to drink and I'm taking off any reason to drink.

It's to the point now where no matter what happens to me in this 24 hours, no matter whatever happens to me today it, there's no reason that I could Take alcohol and drugs. And if I did, it would only make whatever situation I'm in worse. So there's more reasons to not use and less reasons to use.

I'm counting the benefits of sobriety. I'm looking at the consequences of being sober another day. And I'm looking at the consequences if I didn't stay sober another day. I don't want the negative consequences of returning to use, but I love the positive consequences, the benefits of me staying sober for another day.

[00:51:10] Scott Beyer: In your 10 plus years of sobriety, what's changed in relationship to your neighbor? 

[00:51:19] Steve Wilkes: I didn't even understand compassion when I was still in active addiction. I didn't understand compassion. I didn't understand sympathy. I didn't understand empathy. I didn't understand connection to other people.

All my relationships were strained. Every relationship I had was warped because there was alcohol and drugs and mixed into it. So in the way it looks for loving your neighbor is I'm now I am able to attempt to love my neighbor. I'm not very good at it still. After 10 plus years, I still not very good at it, but I have a shot.

I got a chance, an opportunity. I keep saying chance, but it's not like that. It's not like luck. It's a opportunity to try to be better today than I was yesterday. As long as I stay sober today, I got a chance to actually love somebody, and love myself, and love my God. And I'm very grateful that I got a second, third, fourth, hundredth chance.

 God is the God of forgiveness read any prophet, right? Return to me over and over again pick whichever prophet you want I guarantee there's a part in their writing that says return to me God's thus says the Lord return to me Yeah, and I will relent it's almost it's consistent and that's a beautiful thing that your God is faithful You Even though I'm not faithful, I'm unfaithful, I stick at it.

I'm working on it, right? But he's a hundred percent faithful. I've I, the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. I can count on that. The consistency, the faithfulness, and it helps me learn that I can move that way. I can move that direction and I can help other people move in that direction. And that's what loving God and loving my neighbor is about.

Sharing their burden. So their burden's halved and sharing my joy with them. So that the joy grows. 

[00:53:09] Scott Beyer: Steve, thanks. Yeah. Thanks for taking time to talk with me about this subject that a lot of people don't talk about. It hides in the corners, right? Let's bring it to the light. Bring it to the light. Thank you, brother.

Yeah, 

[00:53:22] Steve Wilkes: you bet. My pleasure. Thank you..

Thank you for listening.  If you have further questions about addiction or would like to seek help, you can reach me through scott@biblegrad.com and I will happily get you in touch with Steve for further discussion… and know that I’m proud of you.  Reaching out for help makes you brave.

Also, if you want more information about the work I'm doing at Eastland, visit us at eastlandchristians.org or my personal Bible site, Biblegrad.com, where you can sign up for daily Bible devotionals called Biblebites and receive them in your email each morning, take online Bible classes, or find videos that will help you study through the Bible throughout the year.

And until next time, “Remember, you are loved, so go… love better.”